Which Jesus do you follow?: Revivals

Showing posts with label Revivals. Show all posts

Tuesday, August 5, 2008

Open Letter to Wagner & Joyner by Andrew Strom

OPEN LETTER to WAGNER, JOYNER...
-by Andrew Strom.

I write this as a tongues-speaking, Spirit-filled, prophesying
believer.

Dear Rick Joyner and C. Peter Wagner,

I will do my utmost to avoid disrespect in this letter. But I cannot
avoid the hard questions which must be asked.

I hope my comments here are not construed as "arrogant". This
is certainly not my intent. But I'm sure you have heard the news
by now that the tide has turned in what you call your "Civil War".
I'm sure you have heard that the Lakeland meetings have dwindled,
and the "big tent" has been abandoned in favor of the 700-seat
Ignite church once again. I'm sure you have heard that your man
Todd Bentley's meetings in England have been cancelled, and
that respected leaders even within your own movements have
found vast evidence of falsehoods, fraudulent claims, manipulation
and hype of the most blatant kind. The news of it is worldwide. It
is not just ABC Nightline. It is your own people saying these things.

I'm sure you have heard the news that has even shocked and
saddened me - that the British press is calling Bentley "A US
child sex offender turned church minister who tries to cure cancer
victims by kicking them" - and that 79% of Britons polled want to
keep him out of the country. Where is the glory to Jesus in this?
How could Todd even set foot in England under such a cloud?

Sirs, if this really were a 'Civil War', aren't you living in Gettysburg?

Mr Wagner, I am sure you are aware that because of your open
endorsement of Todd Bentley, numbers of your own ICA 'apostles'
(some very well-known) are already planning an "alternative"
network without all your 'Dominionist' trappings or NAR hierarchies.
Sir, they are leaving. Are you sure you were right to endorse the
Lakeland movement in the very face of your own apostles like that?
Wasn't this one of the most crucial tests of your leadership? Sir,
if your discernment is such that you could get on a stage and
openly endorse one of the most deceptive movements in the history
of the church, then - with all due respect - should you really be
heading up the apostles of the entire Charismatic world? Are you
aware that you have greatly endangered God's precious sheep all
around the globe?

And Mr Joyner, are you conscious of how terribly the Prophetic
movement has deteriorated on your watch, sir? As the most
influential 'father' in that movement, why have you stood by while
the "New Mystics" have taken over - with their gold dust, their
portals, their 'orbs', their drunken jerking, their strange "angel"
encounters and 'visualization' techniques, etc? In fact, why have
you actively encouraged and participated in these very things yourself?

Isn't it true that Bob Jones has been a big mentor for you in these
things, just like he was for Todd Bentley? Wasn't it Bob Jones
who taught you how to "visualize" your way into the 'Third Heaven',
Mr Joyner? Isn't Bob Jones one of the major hidden influences
behind your ministry? Where do you get your visions? How do you
write your books? How can we ever again trust the "angels" that
you see? Sir, what were you thinking - to openly endorse the
"New Mystics" as you did with Todd Bentley? Did you not see
that it could end so badly?

We all know what Bob Jones said when he stood on the stage with
Todd Bentley in front of the whole world:
BOB: "I released my angels to him... this man from Canada asked
for my angels; this Wind of Change is most powerful. Except for
the arch angels, this 'Winds of Change', this is the most powerful
angel..."
BOB TO TODD BENTLEY: "As I watch you, you VIBRATE. You
know there are two portals, clockwise and counter-clockwise.
When you vibrate you close demonic vibration. Counter-clockwise
vibration is demonic. The vibration is healing. Does it seem peculiar?"
[He waves his hands]... "I’m releasing it to you."

A very basic question here: Is there anything even remotely biblical
about any of this?

Mr Joyner, since Bob Jones is your major mentor, and since you
stood on the stage and openly endorsed that whole movement, I
guess we have to assume that this is the kind of "Prophetic" that
you now represent? Isn't that fair to say, sir?

And now I need to ask some questions of my colleagues overseas:
Isn't it true, my friends, that almost every deceptive fad or heresy
of the last 25 years has come out of North America? (ie. The USA
and Canada)? And hasn't it been growing worse and worse?

When I travel to Africa I find deadly "Prosperity" teaching rampant
in the most poverty-stricken of nations. When I travel to Europe
I find them bombarded with flakey 'prophets' from the States.
When I travel to Australia I find them enthralled with 'Mega-church-
Itis' imported from the USA. In every way, North America has
become a source of utter pollution, sickness and compromise -
both in the church and the world. And I believe God wants to put
an end to it.

Personally I love Americans. I lived there for four years, and I have
many dear friends in that part of the world. But I do not believe that
God is going to allow this pollution to spread any longer.

Why do leaders in Australia or Europe think that their movements
must be led by Americans? What nation is most of this pollution
coming from? Why do African leaders allow sick money-grubbing
telecasts from the USA to be beamed to their people via satellite?
Why are any of us allowing any of this garbage? When are we
going to stand up and cry, "ENOUGH"? When are we going to
cut off this pollution - not just for ourselves - but for the sake of
God's precious sheep? Why should we be led by America if they
are leading us into deception?

Should North America even be allowed to lead the worldwide church
any more?

And finally, let me return to Mr Joyner - who once intimated that it
is time to "drive" out those who want to "test the spirits" in the
church. Sir, let me say to you that indeed the time has come to
drive a particular spirit out. It is the spirit of rampant "Charis-mania".
And sir, I have to say with all due respect, that your very own
movement strikes me as the primest of prime places in which to start.

Discuss this on our Forum at- http://www.revivalschool.com

Thursday, July 31, 2008

Are WAGNER's APOSTLES LEAVING??

Are WAGNER's APOSTLES LEAVING??
-Andrew Strom.

Last week we published a number of strong statements against
Lakeland by one of Peter Wagner's 'apostles' named Robert
Ricciardelli. For those who are not aware, Peter Wagner heads
up an organization devoted to setting in place "apostles" over the
church. This is known as the 'New Apostolic Reformation' (NAR),
and it has been very controversial. I myself have never seen it as
any kind of true "Reformation" - because all it seems to do is
set up another level of hierarchy over the existing ones. I also
question whether many of the "apostles" are true apostles - but
that is another story. Suffice it to say, that Wagner runs one of
the most powerful and far-reaching global networks in the
Charismatic world.

I don't know if Peter Wagner fully realized what he was doing
when he went down to Lakeland and publicly endorsed Todd
Bentley and the 'revival' there. But clearly he started a rift in his
own movement that may very well almost tear it apart.

However, before we discuss this further, it is also important to
note that even some "pro-Lakeland" churches are beginning to
have second thoughts about supporting that movement - as more
factual information begins to emerge about what is really going on.

The following was written by the leader of a "pro-Lakeland" church -
and forwarded to me this week. (I have removed the identity of
both the leader and the church). This really is an amazing
admission for such a "pro-Lakeland" leader to make:

"Hi staff,
We need to talk, probably as a staff, and go through what I've
found out. I had a long talk with Robert Ricciardelli. He's no revival
critic... He loves revival, believes in healing, prophecy and all the
rest and is delighted to hear about the healings we've had here.
He's a close friend of Stephen Strader... He's in an accountability
relationship with Lee Grady (editor of Charisma Magazine) and is
a writer for Charisma on occasion. He's part of C. Peter Wagner's
apostolic network, recognized by Peter as an apostle. I've seen
the man's website and he's legit, not a heresy hunter.

"The reports he has given me are firsthand, not hearsay. I am
deeply troubled, grieved and tormented at what I'm hearing. He
attributes most of the anointing at Lakeland to Roy Fields (worship
leader). I agree. Roy is nothing but clean and God shows up hugely
when he leads worship. I can go into detail later about what is
surfacing, but there are huge lapses of integrity going on... Much
embellishment. Many claims have been made that simply are not
true. The Charisma crew has researched it. I want to weep. My
heart is breaking. For now, to be safe and for the sake of integrity,
we need to stop speaking about the claimed resurrections. Three
of them have been checked out with the doctors and EMTs
involved and found never to have happened at all. Todd has been
confronted with this and has not adjusted the numbers in his
claims. Not a single one of the other claimed resurrections can
be substantiated despite diligent effort to do so. Even after
Stephen Strader brought it down to 13 (and even those couldn't
be substantiated) Todd ran it back up to 27 and more.
Misrepresentation and embellishment!

"On the financial front, Todd recently told the crowd that God had
told him that there were 1,000 people who would give $1,000 and
that they would be blessed 1,000-fold. Robert called Stephen
Strader to confront the unbiblical nature of that appeal. It came
out that Todd admitted he hadn't heard that from God, that it was
just an idea he had so that they could raise money to build a big
stadium. Robert challenged them to issue an apology the following
night based on that false claim of being told by God and they
refused to do it on the excuse that it's a different crowd every night.

"That's the flavor of what I'm finding. There's a lot more. I'm so
grieved I can hardly think. I'm not saying the Lakeland Outpouring
is not of God (God is bigger than the men involved), although good
men whom I have respected all my life are saying just that (that it's
not of God), based on what they know and have seen...

"What I am saying is that we need to back up and not identify
ourselves closely with Lakeland and that we need to stop repeating
claims being made on the air lest we end up getting splattered
with the collateral damage when certain issues of false claims,
embellishments and lapses of integrity begin to come out more
publicly. By the way, no one is saying that some healings have not
happened - only that many false, embellished or unsubstantiated
claims have been made. A number of really good men, champions
of revival through the years, are actually saying that the whole
thing is of the devil and that even the healings are demonically
inspired. I want to be clear that I'm not going there..." [-end quote].

So here we have a 'pro-Lakeland' church checking out these facts
for the first time and now deciding that they "need to back up and
not identify ourselves closely with Lakeland." Pretty amazing!

Meanwhile - back to the topic of "apostles" and what is now
happening in Peter Wagner's main 'ICA' organization:

One of Wagner's apostles, Robert Ricciardelli, put out an email
this week saying that he has received a great deal of support for
his stand against Lakeland - the majority of it from pastors. And
he also made the following very significant statement:

"As a member of ICA, Peter Wagner actually caused many
questions to come my way because of my membership there.
I will no longer be involved with that organization and actually
have not tracked well with them and some of their agendas since
I have been involved with them. However, I have enjoyed the many
relationships I have developed from going to the annual meetings.
Most all of those relationships are also disengaging from their
affiliation with ICA, because of many issues beyond Lakeland."

So clearly Robert is now leaving the ICA - as are other 'apostles'
that he knows of also. I asked him to clarify this last point.

Robert wrote to me:
"The ICA leadership continues to adopt belief systems without
seeking the advice and counsel of members. Many of the members
do not, and will not support these beliefs, including the support of
anti-biblical behavior and doctrine currently being expressed through
Todd Bentley and Freshfire Ministries. In fact as ICA embraces
this, they now have taken a stance that will indirectly have to
embrace many of the same ministries, including "New Mystic"
John Crowder and others. This escalating focus on angels,
experiences, trances, etc is far from the focus of Jesus, His
Kingdom, and His righteousness... Many of us who really enjoyed
the ICA annual conferences are now forced to make a decision
as to whether to continue our involvement with them."

Robert has also stated that he personally was never into
"Dominionist" beliefs or the "hierarchical NAR agenda." His last
statement to me was: "I think that there is a chance that many
may disassociate with the ICA depending on Todd continuing to
reveal his deceptive doctrine and Peter continuing to support such doctrine."

I wonder if Peter Wagner ever imagined that by endorsing Todd
Bentley he may be sowing huge seeds of destruction in his own
movement? -Perhaps only time will tell.