Are WAGNER's APOSTLES LEAVING??

Are WAGNER's APOSTLES LEAVING??
-Andrew Strom.

Last week we published a number of strong statements against
Lakeland by one of Peter Wagner's 'apostles' named Robert
Ricciardelli. For those who are not aware, Peter Wagner heads
up an organization devoted to setting in place "apostles" over the 
church. This is known as the 'New Apostolic Reformation' (NAR),
and it has been very controversial. I myself have never seen it as
any kind of true "Reformation" - because all it seems to do is
set up another level of hierarchy over the existing ones. I also
question whether many of the "apostles" are true apostles - but
that is another story. Suffice it to say, that Wagner runs one of 
the most powerful and far-reaching global networks in the
Charismatic world.

I don't know if Peter Wagner fully realized what he was doing
when he went down to Lakeland and publicly endorsed Todd
Bentley and the 'revival' there. But clearly he started a rift in his
own movement that may very well almost tear it apart.

However, before we discuss this further, it is also important to
note that even some "pro-Lakeland" churches are beginning to
have second thoughts about supporting that movement - as more
factual information begins to emerge about what is really going on.

The following was written by the leader of a "pro-Lakeland" church -
and forwarded to me this week. (I have removed the identity of
both the leader and the church). This really is an amazing
admission for such a "pro-Lakeland" leader to make:

"Hi staff,
We need to talk, probably as a staff, and go through what I've
found out. I had a long talk with Robert Ricciardelli. He's no revival
critic... He loves revival, believes in healing, prophecy and all the
rest and is delighted to hear about the healings we've had here.
He's a close friend of Stephen Strader... He's in an accountability
relationship with Lee Grady (editor of Charisma Magazine) and is
a writer for Charisma on occasion. He's part of C. Peter Wagner's
apostolic network, recognized by Peter as an apostle. I've seen
the man's website and he's legit, not a heresy hunter.

"The reports he has given me are firsthand, not hearsay. I am
deeply troubled, grieved and tormented at what I'm hearing. He
attributes most of the anointing at Lakeland to Roy Fields (worship
leader). I agree. Roy is nothing but clean and God shows up hugely
when he leads worship. I can go into detail later about what is
surfacing, but there are huge lapses of integrity going on... Much
embellishment. Many claims have been made that simply are not
true. The Charisma crew has researched it. I want to weep. My
heart is breaking. For now, to be safe and for the sake of integrity,
we need to stop speaking about the claimed resurrections. Three
of them have been checked out with the doctors and EMTs
involved and found never to have happened at all. Todd has been
confronted with this and has not adjusted the numbers in his
claims. Not a single one of the other claimed resurrections can
be substantiated despite diligent effort to do so. Even after
Stephen Strader brought it down to 13 (and even those couldn't
be substantiated) Todd ran it back up to 27 and more.
Misrepresentation and embellishment!

"On the financial front, Todd recently told the crowd that God had
told him that there were 1,000 people who would give $1,000 and
that they would be blessed 1,000-fold. Robert called Stephen
Strader to confront the unbiblical nature of that appeal. It came
out that Todd admitted he hadn't heard that from God, that it was
just an idea he had so that they could raise money to build a big
stadium. Robert challenged them to issue an apology the following
night based on that false claim of being told by God and they
refused to do it on the excuse that it's a different crowd every night.

"That's the flavor of what I'm finding. There's a lot more. I'm so
grieved I can hardly think. I'm not saying the Lakeland Outpouring
is not of God (God is bigger than the men involved), although good
men whom I have respected all my life are saying just that (that it's
not of God), based on what they know and have seen...

"What I am saying is that we need to back up and not identify
ourselves closely with Lakeland and that we need to stop repeating
claims being made on the air lest we end up getting splattered
with the collateral damage when certain issues of false claims,
embellishments and lapses of integrity begin to come out more
publicly. By the way, no one is saying that some healings have not
happened - only that many false, embellished or unsubstantiated
claims have been made. A number of really good men, champions
of revival through the years, are actually saying that the whole
thing is of the devil and that even the healings are demonically
inspired. I want to be clear that I'm not going there..." [-end quote].

So here we have a 'pro-Lakeland' church checking out these facts
for the first time and now deciding that they "need to back up and
not identify ourselves closely with Lakeland." Pretty amazing!

Meanwhile - back to the topic of "apostles" and what is now
happening in Peter Wagner's main 'ICA' organization:

One of Wagner's apostles, Robert Ricciardelli, put out an email
this week saying that he has received a great deal of support for
his stand against Lakeland - the majority of it from pastors. And
he also made the following very significant statement:

"As a member of ICA, Peter Wagner actually caused many
questions to come my way because of my membership there.
I will no longer be involved with that organization and actually
have not tracked well with them and some of their agendas since
I have been involved with them. However, I have enjoyed the many
relationships I have developed from going to the annual meetings.
Most all of those relationships are also disengaging from their
affiliation with ICA, because of many issues beyond Lakeland."

So clearly Robert is now leaving the ICA - as are other 'apostles'
that he knows of also. I asked him to clarify this last point.

Robert wrote to me:
"The ICA leadership continues to adopt belief systems without
seeking the advice and counsel of members. Many of the members
do not, and will not support these beliefs, including the support of
anti-biblical behavior and doctrine currently being expressed through
Todd Bentley and Freshfire Ministries. In fact as ICA embraces
this, they now have taken a stance that will indirectly have to
embrace many of the same ministries, including "New Mystic"
John Crowder and others. This escalating focus on angels,
experiences, trances, etc is far from the focus of Jesus, His
Kingdom, and His righteousness... Many of us who really enjoyed
the ICA annual conferences are now forced to make a decision
as to whether to continue our involvement with them."

Robert has also stated that he personally was never into
"Dominionist" beliefs or the "hierarchical NAR agenda." His last
statement to me was: "I think that there is a chance that many
may disassociate with the ICA depending on Todd continuing to
reveal his deceptive doctrine and Peter continuing to support such doctrine."

I wonder if Peter Wagner ever imagined that by endorsing Todd
Bentley he may be sowing huge seeds of destruction in his own
movement? -Perhaps only time will tell.

Todd Bentley's Supernatural Training Centre or Kundalini Yoga Training?

Todd Bentley's "Supernatural Training Center" application in .pdf says on the front page..

 

Fresh Fire Ministries Presents 

The 2008/2009 Supernatural Training Centre Abbotsford, B.C..

 

"Activate Your Divine Nature and Carry God’s Presence to the World!'

 

 

I don't have a divine nature apart from Jesus Christ. It is HIS divine nature I don't have one. The scriptures say,

Rom 1:20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

 

2 Pet 1:4 For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises, so that by them you may become partakers of {the} divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust.

 

Here is a quote from someone who talks about their Kundalini experience....

 

The awakening of Kundalini is a spiritual awakening, a major step towardsrealization of the divine. According to Swami Prajananda, "The main purpose of its awakening in a seeker is to enable him to attain Godhood" (Muktananda, Kundalini 9). 
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It is the DNA activator. It is the next stage of evolution for man. I believe it is man's hidden treasure that he lost when he "fell from grace" in the Garden of Eden. Now it is returning to this planet wakening beings to their full natures before the fall only even greater. It is the sacred tree of life. It is essentially however, the secret of realization of God, the divine essence within all beings.

http://www.aloha.net/~ruth/Kawake.html

 

This person under the influence of the Kundalini spirit that wrote the quote above is attributing a demonic spirit, Kundalini, with the God of the Bible. The Kundalini spirit is trying to associate the workings of Kundalini  with the works of the christian God in the form of the Holy Spirit and the Word of God (Jesus) and the Tree of Life! The source of the Kundalini spirit is of the kingdom of darkness not the kingdom of God. In reality the Kundalini spirit and its wisdom is of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil NOT the Tree of Life.  Todd Bentley makes the statement that if one attends to their supernatural training centre they will be taught how to "activate THEIR divine nature".  This is not the language of one who is being inspired by the Holy Spirit but one who is being influenced by satan who can transform himself into an angel of light for the purpose of deceiving christians to follow what is false and not of God as if it is of God and true. This kind of talk reminds me of pagan beliefs like Wicca that refer to the "god and goddess within you"...

 

Wikipedia says this about the word Avatar.

 

In English, the word has come to mean "an embodiment, a bodily manifestation of the Divine."

 

Avatara (Sanskrit: अवतार, IAST Avatāra) in Hindu philosophy is the 'descent' or incarnation of a divine being (deva) or the Supreme Being (God) onto planet Earth.

 

Another website says this about what an Avatar is.

 

An avatar is a bodily manifestation of a higher being or a supreme being.
It comes from Hindu mythology. Whenever something divine manifested in a physical form (normally human), it was called an avatar. 

 

Another website said this about releasing your "inner goddess"

 

Each of us will explore ways to give others in our lives and communitiespermission release the inner goddess, and become a beacon of light that liberates others.

 

Wouldn't an "avatar" and a "goddess" be considered "divine"? They would to a pagan or someone who was decieved and was under the influence of the Kundalini spirit. The Kundalini spirit is considered divine. The Kundalini spirit actually tries to convince people that it is the God of creation and of life. It works to deceive people to believe it has the ability to heal and transform a persons life. This kind of belief sounds similar to what the bible teaches what Jesus does through the work of the Holy Spirit in a person who accepts Christ. But the only problem is that it is not Jesus Christ but a false christ. It is a religious spirit feigning the Holy Spirit. Because if you read enough info on the Kundalini spirit you will see that it is said to be a Serpent that when not awakened is coiled at the base of the spine. Here is another quote from the above person about the Kundalini experience

 

It is apparent now according to Lee Sannella, a psychiatrist who has written a seminal work on what he calls "a form of psychospiritual energy" ( 8) the Kundalini Shakti, that is a "process of psychospiritual transformation" that is found in human beings all over the world"transcending personal and cultural differences" (23). I was participating in a universal human experience of transcendence. According to Sannella's research, Kundalini is integral to the teachings of "Tibetan Buddhism, Chinese Taoism," some "American Indian tribes, and ...even of the Bushmen of Africa." It was "most carefully studied and conceptually elaborated" in Hindu India (8).

Although the word Kundalini may appear strange for many readers and the concept of it even incomprehensible to the Western mind, in fact it is closer to each person than his own heart. Kundalini is closer than the breath in the body for it is the breather and the breath. In its dormant form it is the very essence of all life. It is the basic energy of all motion and activity. The coiled Kundalini lies dormant from birth at the base of the spine in every individual until one day it is awakened, then it ascends through the spinal column and the subtle nerve channels of the subtle body cleansing and clearing blockages as it rises towards the crown...where it merges with the energy of the higher Self. This connects the individual to the cosmic energy source so she is no longer an isolated, separated entity, but a conduit of the divine cosmic force.

In the awakened form, this uncoiled force becomes the Kundalini depicted in Indian scriptures both as a Goddess of immense power, often called "Kundalini Shakti," and as a snake or serpent. It is She who is the manifest universe, and when She wakens within an individual, She will sweep one up in Her tremendous passion to reunite with Her Lord, Shiva--the unmanifest --in order to dance once again in his arms. Thus begins a crazy, wonderful, unpredictable ride with Goddess where She rules the body, mind and soul as she ascends through the body to the crown of the head- the seat of Shiva.

 

When people participate in the kundalini experience they are submitting to release the "divine" within them. But in the practice of Kundalini Yoga one is coming under the subjection of a demonic spirit that is in no way divine. Christians don't seek to "Activate THEIR divine nature" because they do not have a divine nature. Christians partake of Christ's divine nature. This philosophy of activating MY divine nature is pagan. I don't think that Todd Bentley is actually under the influence of the Holy Spirit. By the fact that in this application for the 2008/2009 Supernatural Training Center school that one will be able to "Activate YOUR Divine Nature" doesn't sound like something that Jesus Christ is sponsoring or Lord of but something that distorts the word of God to others all in the name of Jesus. But the apostle Paul said this,

2 Cor 11:12 But what I am doing I will continue to do, so that I may cut off opportunity from those who desire an opportunity to be regarded just as we are in the matter about which they are boasting.

2 Cor 11:13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers,disguising themselves as apostles of Christ.

2 Cor 11:14 No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.

2 Cor 11:15 Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds.

Gal 1:6 I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel;

Gal 1:7 which is {really} not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.

Gal 1:8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!

Gal 1:9 As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!

Gal 1:10 For am I now seeking the favor of men, or of God? Or am I striving to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a bond-servant of Christ.

 

If we accept the heresies that Todd Bentley teaches and instructs people in as if it is of the Spirit of God and are unwilling to separate ourselves from Todd Bentley's counterfeit Christ influences then we are seeking to please men and not God just as the apostle Paul said in Galatians. And according to the apostle Paul if someone is preaching a gospel contrary to the true gospel of Christ, IF we did originally receive the true gospel, then that person who preaches a contrary gospel is accursed. I didn't say Todd Bentley was accursed the bible says he is to be accursed since he preaches a gospel that is contrary to the true gospel of Christ Jesus. Further more if we support their false teachings as if it is okay becuause "no one is perfect" then we are in reality deserting Him who called us by the grace of God for a different gospel. 

 

2 Cor 11:3 But I am afraid that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds will be led astray from the simplicity and purity {of devotion} to Christ.

2 Cor 11:4 For if one comes and preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted, you bear {this} beautifully.

 

2 John 1:9-11

9Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

 10If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:

 11For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

If someone calls themself a christian and doesn't abide in the doctrine of Christ they don't have the Father and the Son. And if we support them anyway then we are a partaker of their evil deeds. 

 

Here is another post from a man who, I believe, brings out what is in the hearts of these psuedo-church leaders who preach false doctrine and help spread it to the rest of the body of Christ...this is pure evil and not of God at all the kind of things being said to stop other believers from speaking the truth out that shines a light on their false teaching and their greedy hearts to hold these churches together and keep people in bondage to continue to support their demonic kingdoms passed off as "the kingdom of God"...It is quite disturbing but is a reality...

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Handling Disunity – Rick Warren’s Way

By Eric Barger

 

It figures that Rick Warren would unite with over 100 assorted liberals, heretics and confused Evangelicals in a love-letter calling for unity and common ground with Muslims. However, when dealing with dissenters who oppose his Purpose Driven philosophy and theology, it’s clearly his way or the highway.

 

In his November 14, 2007 directive to pastors, “What the Bible says about handling disunity” from his Pastor.com website, Warren outlines that "You've got to protect the unity of your church. If that means getting rid of troublemakers, do it."

 

Disruptions and disagreements in the Body are unseemly. However, unity in the church at the expense of truth isn’t really unity at all. Likewise, troublemakers may actually be rescuers of the Church if the questions they raise and the opposition they bring are scripturally founded and aimed at restoring authentic biblical teaching and practices. But of course, we need to understand exactly what terms like “unity” and “troublemaker” refer to in Rick Warren’s universe.

 

It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to understand what Warren means when he encourages leaders on how to deal with “dissenters” opposed to what he deems as “progress.” ToWarren, “disunity” refers to opposition to the new way to do church, in particular, the Purpose Driven way.

 

For example, Warren has clearly stated that those who insist on opposing his church transforming plan for growth are “problems.” He has joked about eliminating those of us stuck in what he considers the Stone Age by stating, “The pillars are only holding things up!” Warren claims that when those unwilling to change do leave a church that in reality it’s a “blessed subtraction.” Talk like this should be perceived as offensive. It is sad that so many only chuckle.

 

What Warren has accomplished in his short tenure as Secretary and Guru of Growth isn’t funny to a lot of people. To condescend about and encourage what amounts to the disenfranchisement of people who have poured their time, money and emotions into a church - for what appears to be the sake of selling more books and materials - is frankly sick. Though I’m sure it sounds cynical, when one considers the money that has changed hands to acquire Purpose Driven materials, it is to Warren’s advantage that any negative voices be made to appear foolishly out of step and silenced if possible. Encouraging the elimination and alienation of those who defy the growing Purpose Driven invasion when it comes knocking on their church doors is a key goal in Warren’s strategy. These dissenters are interfering with his version of unity. They are bad for business. They defy his obvious hunger for power and control. They are the troublemakers.

 

Warren begins his November 17 email by stating that the Bible speaks more about unity then of Heaven and Hell. Though I haven’t taken the time to count up the references yet, I am confident that this isn’t so. Let me ask, what about references insisting that we ministers hold to sound doctrine Rick? Does unity outweigh that too? It would appear so at least in Warrenessee. Warren concludes by telling his estimated 400,000+ readers that disunity is Satan’s greatest weapon against the Church. What? While it might be construed as progress that Rick Warren even acknowledges the existence of Satan, to espouse the notion that disunity is the Devil’s chief weapon is not just poor theology. It is a lie. Sins, such as greed and lust, are Satan’s greatest weapon against the Church. However, if Rick Warren is able to make these statements unchallenged then slothfulness and biblical ignorance are obviously gaining ground.

 

WHOEVER SAID THAT MINISTERS ARE ALWAYS RIGHT?

 

The Bible does warn those who cause division and give instructions on how to deal with them. However, as Paul wrote of this (see Titus 3) the supposition is that those in leadership are indeed theologically correct and acting biblically first. Again, no one wants dissention and division but unless a man named Martin Luther – a troublemaking dissenter – had caused the great stir and division which he brought about we might possibly never have broken the bondages and domination of Rome!

 

Luther’s Reformation was based on good theology. Warren’s announced quest for a “new reformation” is not. What Purpose Driven and Seeker proponents need to stop and consider before buying further into Warren’s folly is that Jesus warned us a whopping 14 times about religious leaders who would come and mislead. Pastors and leaders – yours truly included - can be mistaken. Does Jesus expect us to unquestionably accept what is taught every time some alleged Christian leader with a publishing deal or a microphone concocts yet another wacky program or theology? Absolutely not! We are to test all teachings, sermons or philosophies to see if they match up to the Bible. (I Thess 5:21) Otherwise, some other neo-evangelical like Rick Warren will use the misguided idea of “unity before truth” to sidetrack others into what can only be referred to as cultism.

During his last visit with them, Paul warned the Ephesian elders that after his departure “grievous wolves (will) enter in among you, not sparing the flock.” Paul then states that “Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.” He concludes his warning by stating “Therefore watch...” (Acts 20:28-31a)

 

Peter writes, “But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.” (II Peter 2:1) In these two passages, Peter and Paul are obviously directing their warnings at the Church. Therefore, it is not “disunity” to oppose unbiblical ideas and teaching inside the Body. It is actually the most appropriate thing to do.

 

My words here are not intended to give credence to individuals in church who are just plain disagreeable, who buck everything at every turn and who are bent on being upset over silly stuff. But when it comes to indubitably going along with Church leadership on any given issue – particularly, if it’s only for the sake of unity itself – just remember this phrase: Unity at the expense of truth is not the unity taught in the Bible. Believers should all be able to unify on that!

 

Copyright 2007, Eric Barger

Distributed by www.ChristianWorldviewNetwork.com 

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AMEN and AMEN!